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 Post subject: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compressor
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 pm
Posts: 371
Hey guys,

I'm contemplating buying the citadel spray gun so I can quickly basecoat my marines (namely assault terminators and predator.) I have two questions for those who have used one, do I need to spray an undercoat (I.e chaos black) or can I just use the foundation paint (mordian blue) as the undercoat? Also is the spray gun any good? I've never used one before so I'm a noob to all this. Would you recommend one for just basecoating models or is there something else you would recommend?

Thanks for your help

Ash


Last edited by ashmo on Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun, your thoughts?
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:42 pm
Posts: 2593
Location: Perth
Would be recommending Undercoating first, the spray gun is just to apply a basecoat evenly and quickly

In terms of the quality - its the cheapest spray gun you might find. The price reflects its quality.
In essence; its good, but it will need atleast 2 (preferably 3) citadel propellant cans (but can be connected to a compressor), and constant cleaning (thoroughly after each use).

Its good when it works. Though, I cant exactly comment on any other type of spray gun as I have not used any others, so it is quite possible the case is the same with other spray guns??


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun, your thoughts?
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:48 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
I bought one of these some time ago and despite numerous attempts was often disappointed. There is a bit of an art form involved in mixing the paint and water for the spray pot so you don't get either an intermittent paint jet (aargh) and/or bad results (*##*). This sprayer provides a really quick method for basecoating a mob of minis, but alot of paint is wasted in the process, which given the cost of a pot of paint these days is a consideration. I also frequently ran into the problem of mixing either too much paint (and wasting it) or not mixing quite enough (only coating 19.5 or my 20 models, then mixing too much anyway to get the last mini coated). There are other options out there for the Army Painter in a hurry that don't just come in black and white, and don't need a primer/basecoat, or so I am told.

I switched to spray cans with specific colours for my FOW Gerry Tanks and have been very pleased with the results (two spray cans for40 panzers, versus 1 x 15ml pot of paint (plus cleaning time) for only 6 panzers - hmmm! Spray cans are the most time-effective and I think just as cost effective, if not more so than spray gun, plus 3 propellent cans, plus 15ml paint pots. My advice, consider your options before you go there. See if you can borrow one from a friend and have a go with it. If you do go there practice, practice, practice before you place your precious minis in the line of fire of said sprayer, and stop worrying about the cost of paint....and be careful not to be tempted to overspray the models rather than using multiple thin coats or the paint-water mixture will run and pool in the recesses real fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun, your thoughts?
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:10 am
Posts: 8954
Location: Perth
My thoughts follow on from ju.

Thatnicguy on here uses one, head to his sewer board WIP for malifaux. He has photos of desolation engine painted with a spray gun

At the moment I am experimenting with Army Painter Primer colours, they are $25 for a large can and come in many colours, I'm using bone at the moment

Simmo


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun, your thoughts?
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:09 am 
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If your going to use it once or twice, go over to a friend who has one (or better still a real compressor/gun) if your going to use it constantly and paint loads of mini's particularily vehicles then a decent compressor and regular needley thing is a far better option, more expensive outlay but in the long run, not having to buy all those cans of super expensive spray/propellent helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun, your thoughts?
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 pm
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Thanks for the replies guys it's made me think alittle more. It's funny how the staff at gw make it sound like it's the greatest thing ever... Unfortunetly because I'm new to the hobby again only my brother plays and he doesnt have the spray gun. After reading what's written so far im 95% sure I'm going to stay away from it but I'm not sure what's a good brand of spraygun/airbrush to buy or what's a reasonable price. Can anyone help with that?

I thought id just buy the spray gun as it was cheap but after reading how much you go through propellant cans and the unpredictable nature of the spraying itself it'll be smart to Just outlay more money for a better and more reliable product. I take it the more advanced guns work on a similar process to the citadel one? Obviously you don't use a propellant can how do you mix the paint/store it with an airbrush?

Thanks again guys!


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun, your thoughts/ recommend me an airbrus
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Location: Carramar
Runway 13 is an Aussie company that sell a variety of air brushes and compressors. Good quality stuff. It costs about $200.00 to start out with a semi decent kit. Not cheap but saves a lot of painting hours.

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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun, your thoughts/ recommend me an airbrus
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:54 pm 
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I am tooled up with an Aztek airbrush with various nozzles etc. for varying jobs...it is a great bit of kit. Not sure about the GW one, but as stated above it is probably a case of get what you pay for, so balance that up with your needs and expectations.

Either way don't be put off by the first few coats being 'spotty' and light, it takes several nice thin coats for best results on minis. The paint should be mixed to about thick milk consistency, any thinker and the gun will spit and spray oddly as chucks develop in its feed and outlet.

If you choose to also spray the washes do not water them down.
These things are also hungry for paint (although you will use MUCH less than if you tried painting with a brush).

Hope that helps...honestly, airbrush / spray guns are great for that first coat AFTER undercoat.
Patience = results

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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compresso
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Ive been doing alittle reading whats better a gravity fed or suction fed airbrush? I noticed they sell both airbrushes and sprayguns whats better in your opinion? I'd have a budget of approx $200-$300 would that be enough for an airbrush and compressor? If so can you point me to some websites that are worth looking through.

Ive had a look at runway 13 but because i dont know alot yet its a little confusing picking between the different models.


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compresso
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Location: Carramar
Re Runway gear.

AS176 Compressor. Great value at $155.00 and it's got a moisture trap. Don't buy a compressor without that feature.

http://runway13.com/store/index.php?mai ... ducts_id=6

AB-120 Airbrush. Excellent starter brush at $59.00. It comes with one .3mm nozzle. You can buy different size nozzles for different types of work. But you don't need them as a starter.

http://runway13.com/store/index.php?mai ... ducts_id=3

If you have more cash to spend have a look at the AB-134's. $100.00.

The difference between gravity fed and siphon fed airbrushes is simple. Gravity fed have a pot on top of the gun and it flows down. Disadvantage is you need to clean the gun each time you want to change colours. Advantage is they are easy to maneuver. Siphon fed brushes suck paint into the gun from a tube that is attached to a paint pot sitting on your desk top or attached dirrectly under your brush. Advantage is you can swap colours without cleaning the gun. Siphon is better, but I have a gravity fed and it works for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compresso
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Here is my post copy-pasted post i wrote previously on my experiences with my spray gun, after practice i'd say it's very easy to get a consistent level effect without havinng to do multiple coats.

Now i only have experience with the air compressor i bought and rather then telling you how to work it i will give some tips from what i've learned by trial and error.

First of all my compressor is a Sparmax dual engined job with a Paasche single action airbrush kit, i got it from Tactics, now it's not cheap, all up it will cost you in the region of 350? iirc (i try to put the costs to the back of my mind about this hobby!) but if your in a club you should get your Tactics discount.

Image

Now having a more expensive dual engined compressor means that you will have continual air flow, without the pressure having to build up again, which is very nice, and it will also last longer because it has to do less work.

The airbrush is single action meaning you can't control your mixture as exactly as a double action, but since we're painting miniatures and not doing touch ups on movie stars i don't think it's necessary, i certainly didn't want the extra hassle of learning one.

You will also want to get some airbrush cleaner (although you can use workshop materials for cleaning, this airbrush cleaner is very good at getting rid of acrylic paint) and paint thinner, which is vital.

Getting it set up is simple enough, plug it in, screw in all the attachments and so on, you will get instructions with it, test it with a bit of water and you see soon enough if you have done it right.

You have to get your mix of paint to thinner right, people say you need it the consistency of milk, which is pretty accurate, it has to swirl around freely but not be too watery. After a while you will start to know what is required from your consistency but it will take a few attempts. When you spray you will see whether or not it is too watery.

With your airbrush you will get different sized nozzles, with rings denoting size, for Games Workshop paints i use the smallest ring, the single ring one on my airbrush. However for my Vallejo paints (and probably foundation paints which i have not used) i use a 3 ring nozzle, they have greater pigmentation which i assume makes the difference. Vallejo paint didn't even come out of the single ring nozzle.

It is also very important that your seal is intact in your reservoir bottle, it is a little cardboard O-ring and if it isn't in there, intact and making a decent seal your airbrush will spit and misbehave terribly.

Cleaning is very important, as soon as you are done spray an amount of airbrush cleaner through the gun until it comes out clean (it is very whiffy so do it outside, which you might want to do anyhow with your spraying because it although not when its windy!) Then take down all the parts and swirl them around in some cleaner, then get in there with ear twizzle sticks and toothpicks and clean it up as much as you can (this is the worst part about having an airbrush)

Apart from that follow the instructions you get with the air brush and you will be fine.

Don't expect miracles from the airbrush, it does take a fair bit of practice and trial and error, but after a few goes you will start to get a feel of what paint consistency you need, i have so far done 10 vehicles with it, and it works brilliantly, it speeds up my painting time infinitely, using it for basecoats and doing camo patterns by taping up sections and spraying. You will also find it handy for doing base and undercoats that you want in non-can colours (i am imagining things like masses of Skaven or Skeletons)

I wouldn't want to not have one now i have been using it, but if you don't plan on doing a lot of painting (especially vehicles) it's probably not worth the investment. That said i am not doing anything fancy with mine, and you can be very creative with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compresso
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:33 am
Posts: 28
Location: Australia, Ellenbrook
The GW sprayer is quite crude, not worth the money. Suction fed guns are cheap and result in a poorer finish to your spray job. This is because they can suck air if the paint in the hopper (feed jar) falls below the feed tube level, say if you change your spray angle to try and get at an difficult to reach bit. The propellant cans also "frost up" if used on larger jobs and this changes the pressure of the propellant feed and thus the finished spray result.

I have a badger compressor and dual action gravity fed air brush, the compressor was the pricey item at about $270 while the air brush cost around $50. The Dual action brushes give you a little more freedom with your paint mix ratio and allow you to alter the size of your spray cone simply without having to pull the airbrush gun apart.

Personally however I would not use foundation paints in them as the watering down process doesn't always work and can cause the paint to split resulting in globs on your miniature.


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compresso
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:49 pm 
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I bought the GW spray gun and wish I never had. I have successfully sprayed 2-3 vehicles and 10 marines with it. I have tried to spray 5-6 vehicles and 20 marines. Trying to get the paint to water mix just right is infuriating and I never rarely seem to get enough pressure to make it work.

I gave up trying to speed up my base coats and have just bought a airbrush from airbrushwarehouse.com.au. Have a starter kit for $259 with everything my research told me I needed (ie: gravity fed, dual action, internal mixing airbrush with a compressor that has a moisture trap and tank).


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compresso
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:28 pm
Posts: 322
Location: Mt Lawley
My friend AllDeadDave and I decided that we need airbrushes.

I bought the citadel airbrush a while ago, I was able to use it twice before it stopped working (although the nice peeps at GW Morley have said that I can bring it in for some sort of repair).

After much research and bargain hunting we finally found one that meets the list of requirements and is a good price, we plan to do a combined order in a week or two to save on freight.
This is only a little starter machine, designed more for doing detail work and shading, not mass painting. One of the big pro's for this compressor and airbrush is that I will be able to use my vallejo paints with the aid of a bit of airbrush medium.

http://www.hobbytools.com.au/prod193.htm

Any warnings or advice for this machine?


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 Post subject: Re: Citadel spraygun/ recommend me an airbrush and compresso
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Location: Guildford
I've got something very similar to Mr Zoring.

Though my compressor is single engine and my Paasche airbrush is dual action.
Have had no issues with the compressor though Olly has used it more than me and may be able to provide more feedback.
As for the airbrush, dual action is pretty useful and means that you can do more fancy things if you want to learn how. Not to sure as to how it stands up base coating whole armies, once again Olly might be able to shed some more light on that area as it's what he's using for his Grey Knights (topic, Olly Does Grey Knights).

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